How can we play like children, but as adults? And how could it transform the workplace if we learn to develop deeper, adult ways of playing as we got older instead of putting it away? And most importantly, how can play principles be incorporated into our workplace relationships and career goals? This conversation tackles all of these questions and more with Lauren Yee, Cultivator of Curiosity.
Rona Lewis, Founder and CEO of Playful Minds Project, explains her work with businesses to improve mental health in the workplace. Rona doesn’t believe in work/life balance. Work is part of life! So how do you balance it all? It’s about taking time to make time work for you. And above all, having an attitude of play that makes life an adventure, not a responsibility.
Have you ever heard the quote, “Be the person you needed when you were younger.” This quote by Ayesha Siddiqi is embodied in the work of Rita Ezenwa-Okoro. Rita lives in Lagos, Nigeria and is the Founder and Lead Visionary of Street Project Foundation, a not-for-profit organization that uses creative arts and performing arts tools to facilitate opportunities for youth employment, social mobilization and cross-cultural dialogue in Nigeria.
Gary Ware is concerned about your plan to work an all-nighter to finish that project. You might want to listen to his advice, because he's been where you are. Gary is the founder of Breakthrough Play, where he helps teams be more creative, confident, and collaborative using play. He has over half a decade of experience with improvisation, and over 14 years in the field of Digital Marketing.
I first encountered Gary as the featured speaker for the Creative Mornings newsletter. His talk hit home, and I think it'll hit home for you as well if you've ever said to yourself, "I'll play when I get all of my work done." That may have worked when we were kids, but for us adults, the work is never done. And if we never play, we suffer. That suffering is called play deprivation - and Gary Ware is a great guide to help us understand it as well as overcome it.
Lack of play is a serious problem for us humans. Play geeks like me call it “play suppression.” In the worst cases, studies have shown that children who are kept from playing by their parents tend to have a hard time learning to relate to others and deal with their violent tendencies, leading to some of history’s saddest violent acts.
Even those of us who did play as children but gave it up in adulthood suffer the effects of play suppression. One study that has sparked my interest in relation to this topic is called the Rat Park study. That’s why I’ve been looking forward to this conversation with Stuart McMillen for so long.
Stuart McMillen is a cartoonist based in Canberra, Australia. Stuart draws long-form comics inspired by social issues involving science, ecology, sustainability, psychology and economics. His comics are currently translated into 9 languages, with the help of an enthusiastic international team of volunteers. In the podcast, Stuart refers to his work as science communication comics. He takes complex studies and subjects, spends vast amounts of time researching them then breaks them down for us laypeople in the form of a comic.
In this episode, we’ll talk about two studies that relate to addiction and isolation, Rat Park and Deviance in the Dark. They shine a light on the importance of community, intimacy and of course, play. After we discuss the basics of these studies, we launch into a conversation that, if you like this podcast at all, will be one you won’t want to miss. It’s at the very heart of why I’m so passionate about helping adults realize the vital importance of play.
Enjoy!
Have you ever started a passion project only to find it suddenly feels like work? And not the fulfilling kind of work either – just plain, to-do list work. It’s not easy to rediscover the spark that led you to start your project, but one way to achieve that is to revisit the reasons we got started in the first place. Maybe you’ve changed and grown? If the project hasn’t grown with you, maybe it’s not the right project for you anymore? Or maybe our discomfort with it is a growing pain – maybe it’s time to start thinking about how your project can change and grow as you do.
In this episode you’ll meet Chris Kim, the podcaster responsible for the awesome storytelling show about the great city of Las Vegas called Faces and Aces. Their show is “our love letter to the city and the people who work in it.” I was just recently interviewed for his show which sparked a larger conversation offline about this very topic - so I asked him if we could share that conversation on here on the PlayGrounding Podcast.
Chris and I are both coming back from a bit of a hiatus from our shows – for me it’s been a month and for him, he’s been away from podcasting for about six months. We’ve both come back to our podcasts after some deep soul searching and decided to move forward – we’ve found motivation to keep our projects fresh and fun. And while this particular conversation is about podcasting, it can apply to any project you started out of pure passion, curiosity and fun that has begun to feel like a little too much. Don’t give up quite yet. Start asking yourself the right questions so that whether you decide to lay it down or not, you know you're doing it because it’s what you really, really want.
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He hasn’t been on vacation in years, but if he did, he’d miss what he does every day too much. There’s still so much to create.
Bruce Gray is a prolific artist whose work has been exhibited worldwide, has appeared in over 45 books and countless times on television, in movies, and in the press. And yes, that was his magnetic sculpture you saw in Doctor Evil’s lair from the movie, Austin Powers (One of my personal favorites). Being in his shop is like a trip down the rabbit hole with giant robots, metal paper planes, alligator tables and giant pieces of cheese. And that’s just the start.
Before he took the plunge and became the artist he is today, Bruce had some fascinating adventures such as a stint in the military serving in the isolated, hauntingly beautiful Aleutian Islands. Each step he took brought him closer to realizing that his true calling was to become that kid in shop class who gets to dream big, take chances and build amazing things with his hands.
Bruce works in a wide range of styles and mediums which include abstract painting, functional art, giant objects, abstract and figurative sculptures, found object assemblages, and various forms of kinetic art including mobiles, rolling ball machines, suspended magnet sculptures, and more. Hear his story and how he’s managed to create a life of play - every day.
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Kids love to play make-believe. When we talk about bringing back play as adults, this one seems like a stretch. Adults don’t play make believe, do we? Grownups don’t get together and announce that today we’re going to play Star Wars and you get to be Luke. Or do they? This week’s guest reminds us that the imaginative play that we engaged in as children gave us access to tools we can use throughout our entire lives. Imaginative play provides us with the opportunity to be agile and creative in our thinking – to see new paths, new scripts to follow when we start to feel stuck.
If you’re tired of carrying around that weight - of trying to meet everyone’s expectations and following the very serious grownup path we’re all supposed to, I invite you to meet Tony Perone, Ph.D., a lecturer at University of Washington, Tacoma. His incredibly lucky students have the opportunity to see what it’s like to peel back that layer of expectation and write new “scripts” for our usual mundane daily interactions. Even our conversation is playful and fun
Here’s an excerpt from Tony's profile on the University of Washington website:
“I examine the self-reported meanings, presence and developmental and educational benefits of life-span imaginative play in the lives of adults. I interview adults about their imaginative play: their meanings of the words “imagination” and “play,” their self-reported engagement in imaginative play in their early childhood, elementary school years, adolescence and adulthood, its relationship with community practices and beliefs and their stance on how their imaginative play has helped them learn and develop. In addition, their experiences with imaginative play in their formal learning environments are discussed as well as their suggestions for the inclusion of imaginative play in formal schooling.
“I am a part of a larger international performance movement that draws upon and creates scholarship in psychology and the arts to support the presence and importance of play and performance across the lifespan. Members of this movement include urban, suburban, and rural youth, academics and practitioners such as teaching artists, therapists and community organizers. We believe in the presence and potential of play and performance, broadly construed and create practical performance opportunities for development across the lifespan to effect more humane, just and inclusive environments.”
So get ready to start thinking in some new ways – throw out your expectations and get ready for some serious fun.
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We know that a playful approach to life can lead to better innovations, cooperation and even transform lives. But what about when disaster strikes? Does play still have a role? Desiree Matel-Anderson has proof that play is vitally important even when facing harrowing situations like floods, tornadoes and other types of crises.
In this interview, she shares how a Robot Petting Zoo helped the unaccompanied minors stranded in Texas border towns during the youth border crisis in 2013 – 2015. She talks about her team’s fascinating uses for drones and how they’re working with a town in Canada to gamify emergency prep – and it really IS a game. It sounds like these people are having an awful lot of fun. (Has anyone seen that mayor?)
Desiree (Desi) Matel-Anderson is the “Chief Wrangler” of the not-for-profit organization Field Innovation Team (FIT) and CEO of the Global Disaster Innovation Group, LLC. Ms. Matel-Anderson is the first and former Chief Innovation Advisor at FEMA and Think Tank Strategic Vision Coordinator. During her tenure at FEMA, she led the first innovation team down to Hurricane Sandy to provide real-time problem solving in disaster response and recovery. She also ran think tanks nation-wide to cultivate innovation in communities, which have historically trended globally on social media during the broadcasts. The Field Innovation Team has deployed to several disasters including, the Boston Marathon Bombings assisting at the scene with social media analysis, Moore, Oklahoma tornadoes for continued mobile registration and coding solutions, Philippines Typhoon Haiyan for cellular connectivity heat maps and the Oso, Washington Mudslides with unmanned aerial system flights and a 3d print of the topography for incident command. During the Nepal earthquakes, she led the team to work with Nepali women leaders in the earthquake relief efforts, which included rebuild, mobilizing survivors to assist in recovery efforts and empowerment trainings. Currently, her efforts are focused on the Syrian Refugee Crisis with team deployed to Beirut, Lebanon and virtual support in Turkey and Syria.
Desi began her emergency management experience by volunteering in Northern Illinois University’s Office of Emergency Planning followed by working with the Southeast Wisconsin Urban Area Security Initiative, and the City of Milwaukee Homeland Security and Emergency Management Office. In addition to her regional emergency management duties, she worked as an assessor of the Emergency Management Accreditation Program Assessor nation-wide, which included assessing the City of Boston’s emergency management services prior to the tragic Boston Marathon bombings. She has also worked on numerous innovative projects with agencies, communities, organizations and companies throughout her career. Desi also lectures on innovation at Harvard and various universities across the country and serves as consultant for agencies and governments, nationally and internationally, on innovative practices and infrastructure.
Desi attended the National Preparedness Leadership Institute at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government and School of Public Health in 2011, advised on Harvard’s Executive Education on National Preparedness Leadership Institute Advisory Board in 2013 and obtained a Juris Doctorate from Northern Illinois University in 2009.
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The US Play Coalition believes that everyone in the world should have equal access to all forms of play. Play is a basic need that provides the foundation for all areas of development. It’s an essential part of being human that helps us reach our full potential. But that’s still not a very mainstream view. Play is just beginning to move beyond the perception that it’s a fluffy “nice to have.” That’s why play needs a voice. One of them is the US Play Coalition.
The US Play Coalition is a collection of many voices - it's a deep well of knowledge around the subject of play. On their website, you can find research, publications, events and educational resources. They hold an annual conference in April. This year the theme is “The Value of Play: Where Design Meets Play.”
I’m honored to have recently become a Play Ambassador for them and that happened when I met Ryan Fahey. Ryan’s role at the US Play Coalition includes connecting with play ambassadors (which now includes me!), engaging them within the play ambassador network and promoting the US Play Coalition annual conference through social media. He also co-created #WePlayChat with the US Play Coalition, a professional learning opportunity which connects play advocates from across the globe to share a voice for the value of play on twitter.
Ryan is a firm believer in wellness and play being key aspects of a happy, healthy life. His passions include running, weight lifting and playing badminton. He believes that wellness is not a destination, rather it is a journey navigated daily through intentional actions which take you from a good life, to your best life!
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The fun of a Rube Goldberg machine is watching a task, one that should be simple, being performed through a drawn-out series of seemingly meaningless detours. But we hate detours, right? Not always. This interview with Brett Doar, I hope, will challenge how you look at finding your “path” to success, to contentment, to your goals, whatever they are. (Hint: Play plays a pretty big role).
Brett Doar is a multi-disciplinary artist known for his work building Rube Goldberg machines and other types of interactive and kinetic devices. You might have seen his work in the OK Go This Too Shall Pass video from a few years back. He and his team have also brought these, what he likes to call “Chain reaction machines” to live stages at places like such as The Colbert Report, Google IO and SO many more. He holds an MFA from the Arts, Computation and Engineering program at UC Irvine. But really, what’s most important to us, he’s capable of building ANYTHING out of paperclips.
His background includes working as a commercial fisherman, a bus driver, a film and video editor, and teacher (preschool, middle school, and university level). His work has received press in NPR, the Wall Street Journal, Village Voice, PC Magazine, CNN, Rolling Stone, and the Los Angeles Times, the New York Times, and Comedy Central.
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Ilana Ben-Ari’s startup, Twenty One Toys, is part of a revolution. A toy revolution. On their website they ask: “Our revolution demands answers: Where are creativity, play, teamwork and empathy in our classrooms, our boardrooms or the public square? More importantly, how do we teach these critical skills?”
In school we learn to compete, to win, to make the highest marks and try to become the best. But how do we teach future generations – and even our own generations in the workplaces and political discussions we engage in right now – the skills we desperately need to thrive in the 21st century? How do we teach things like empathy, creativity and how to handle failure? Ilana’s answer - with toys of course!
Ilana Ben-Ari is a multiple-award winning industrial designer, TEDx speaker, and Ariane de Rothschild Fellow. She has been featured in the Guardian UK, was Independent UK's small business person of the week, and winner of C2MTL's emerging entrepreneur award. She has been working at the intersection of design and social innovation for over 7 years at studios in Montreal, Helsinki, London, and, most recently Toronto, Ontario.
Ilana is best known as the founder, CEO and lead designer of her first startup - Twenty One Toys. She transformed her thesis project into the company’s first product, The Empathy Toy. Originally designed for visually impaired students and their sighted classmates, it is now used as a tool to teach Empathy to anyone and everyone. Already in 43 countries, over 1000 schools, 30 post-secondary institutions, 100 offices, and even 3 MBA programs, it was featured in TIME magazine as “one of six new technologies shaping classrooms of the future.”
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Science tells us how important play is for kids – for the development of their minds and ability to adapt. But what about adults? Once we reach the age of adulthood, and often even in the midst of adolescence, play is left behind. Ben Ross (a.k.a. The Flying Raccoon) passionately believes that this can’t be right. His mission is to reintegrate Play into the lives of all adults to “grow their ability to let go; to gain a calmer outlook and become more able to respond positively to the events that life throws at us.”
In this episode, Ben shares about steps we adults can take to reclaim play unapologetically. He talks about how we can start reintroducing play into our day-to-day experiences and begin to recognize and expand on the types of play we’re most drawn to. We explore the connection between play and mindfulness, as well as how we can only be really good at the work we do when we learn to play.
Today's Guest - Ben Ross
Ben's Inspirational Trip to Big Sur
Some Organizations to Help You Rediscover Play
Amber Clisura is a force of nature. The good kind. And she has some very strong feelings about the vitality of play to share with us in this episode. She believes that how we play can shape our own lives as well as help to open up the possibility of joy and fun in the lives of others.
She’s part of a community dedicated to song and pure play called Jerk Church that began in Oakland, California. They’re irreverent and fun, but they’re also dedicated to giving back. At Jerk Church, doing good deeds is never a drag. Learn more about the Jerks as well as Amber’s personal take on how our attitudes toward play shape our perspectives on career, hard work and what it means to “follow our bliss.” (Believe me, it’s not what you’re expecting.)
Enjoy!
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As the post-election storms continue to rock the world, a group of play enthusiasts are coming together to ask the question, can play help us heal from this divisiveness and turmoil? One Facebook post really caught my imagination. It was entitled, “Can Play Save Us?” Mathias Poulsen, Co-founder & Chairman of the Board of the NGO CounterPlay in Denmark, began his post by saying, “I need to act.” He went on to explain how a playful perspective is more vital than ever right now and therefore, so is his crusade. Between his words and the many inspiring comments, I’m re-energized to keep going as well.
So this episode is my refection on what I’ve been learning so far about play from PlayGrounding guests and how we might be able to answer the question, can play save us? In a special conversation with Amanda Coolong, Co-Chairman of the Board at WITI - Women In Technology International and former PlayGrounding guest, actress Michelle Barton, we’ll look at how play can pull us out of negative, non-productive thought patterns and open us up to inspiration and action. We’ll also learn from other former guests, Meg Athavale and Megan Sadd about play’s role in battling addiction and depression.
This is not my way of definitively answering Mathias’ question. It’s my starting place. I hope many more voices join in to help answer the questions he poses in his call for proposals for the CounterPlay Festival/Conference in 2017:
We wish to explore the potential role of playful participation, for individuals, communities and society at large. How might it facilitate a stronger sense of agency and become a catalyst of adaptability and change? In what ways can play inspire and encourage us to question the status quo and challenge the rules? When will our innate playfulness spark our imagination and curiosity, and will it enable us to see that the world could be transformed into something else? Should we consider play a political act that can shape societies? Could it even make democracy come alive through new forms of participation? Can play bolster our courage, so we dare to speak out and challenge established power structures and hierarchies?
Let’s start figuring it out together.
“If you think about the human spirit – if we were to evolve to our highest state – what is that? It’s play.” – Artist Patrick Shearn
Patrick Shearn is an artist and founder of Poetic Kinetics. He creates interactive, experimental art installations such as the recent Liquid Shard, a beautiful temporary installation above Pershing Square in Downtown Los Angeles. Made of holographic mylar that spanned 15,000 square feet, it rode on the wind up to 115 feet in the air. Liquid Shard brought hundreds of people out of their offices each day to enjoy lunch in the park who wouldn't ordinarly have left their cubicles.
Patrick and his team are also responsible for incredible art pieces at festivals like Burning Man and Coachella. In 2013, they created an 80-foot snail called “Helix Poeticus,” in 2014, the 36-foot tall astronaut called “Escape Velocity” (affectionately dubbed “The Coachella Astronaut”), and a double piece in 2015 called "Caterpillar’s Longing" – a giant colorful caterpillar and butterfly that shaded festival-goers from the sun with its giant wings.
But this interview is about much more than just Patrick’s art. He’s very passionate about instigating play in the lives of those around him. He encourages us grown-ups to see that our wild ideas can STILL be possible, and it all starts with making play at integral part of our lives.
You’ll hear how his philosophy of life springs out of an unusual childhood where he was encouraged to run with his wildest ideas, to figure things out on his own at a young age, to explore the unknown and follow his instincts.
No one has ever promised us cozy and secure lives, but many choose to live in a state of denial when it comes to the fact that sometimes our planet is trying to kill us.
As of the day this podcast is going live, Hurricane Matthew is pounding Florida. Just a few weeks ago, an earthquake alert was issued for the first time in the State of California. We were told to be ready for a possible earthquake with a magnitude of 7 or greater in the southern part of the state.
These things aren’t fun. Why would we talk about them on a podcast about play? No one in their right mind WANTS to think about them, right? Wrong. Meet professional artist Kevin “Kevissimo” Rolly. Kevin thinks about this stuff a lot, but he’s far from a Debbie Downer.
Kevin has been attending Burning Man since 1996. Early on, he experienced how radical self-reliance could be incredibly empowering and even fun. Facing the unknown, getting educated and being prepared can lead not only to peace of mind but to great adventures and the ability to care for and teach his community.
So for this working artist, emergency preparation has become his side gig. He now teaches earthquake preparedness classes for fun, but I promise they’re not like any class of its kind you’ve ever experienced.
In today’s episode, you’ll get a little taste of Kevin’s class, Earthquake 101: A Humble Guide on How Not to Die.
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Chef David Weidman, or “Chef Dave” as he’s known to his admirers, is known for his spectacular mini-cheesecakes and desserts. But his fame among the Burning Man community is due to his generosity, passion and creativity in the dusty kitchen. On this episode, you’ll hear how cooking became a lifeline when he was a young boy struggling with a learning disability. He also talks about meeting Julia Child, partnering with a rocket scientist to create amazing frozen desserts in the harshest desert conditions, and how giving himself over to what many would have called a hobby led him to deeper friendships, great adventures and a new business.
If you’ve ever been to Burning Man, you might have met Chef Dave or tasted some of his food. He’s cooked for Black Rock Observatory, The French Quarter, Black Rock Bakery, Red Nose District and even the ever elusive Tuna Guys. He even made jasmine cupcakes for a wedding on the open playa this year! (They were amazing.)
You can buy his cheesecakes and other desserts at local Los Angeles area farmers markets or you can find him online at www.f2d4.net. From his website, you can also email him if you’d like to be added to his list for ethnic culinary adventures around Los Angeles.
“We’re the outcasts and the oddballs. We see things a little differently. We give ourselves permission to find something about ourselves to love, something we’re good at and passionate about. We don’t try to fit in. Then we just do our thing.” – Chef David Weidman "Chef Dave"
It’s easy to point a finger at over-protective parents, but don’t let yourself away with being over-protective of YOU. You’ll be missing all the fun.
It’s so sad, right? Many kids don’t get to run free and play with sticks or climb dangerous jungle gyms anymore. But a lot of study has been done around how important it is for kids to explore and challenge themselves, even when it means they might get hurt.
But as I always wonder, what about us adults? We need play in the same ways that children do – even play that could get a little dangerous. Some adults choose dangerous sporting activities to challenge themselves. We have an awesome sense of accomplishment when we push past a fear and climb that rock face or float down those rapids.
But there’s a whole world beyond sport for those of us who want to challenge ourselves while having a little fun. That’s what this show is about.
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When we were kids, everyone thought it was important for us to play. They even set up this weird thing called “recess” where we could encounter the awesome world of the playground. They knew it was good for us then, but what about now? As adults, no one seems to care about recess for us anymore. It was good for us then, and it’s vital for us now. But how do we find a playground like we had back then? One that’s a world unto itself? I started this show for that very reason. There are no teachers watching out for us now. We have to prioritize play for ourselves.
In this episode, part two of a three-part series on finding a great playground, we’ll revisit Dr. Stuart Brown’s properties of play and how I found them at Burning Man. Like the playground at school – it was a world unto itself. It cut us off from the world of expectations and homework only to leave us with possibility and exploration. We can find it as adults. I found it at Burning Man. I invite you to share with me the other places where you find your own “Secret Gardens” and playgrounds.
We’ll also meet an old friend of mine from the other side of the world who has a very special message for all of us.
Mark Azoulay, “a psychotherapist in Boulder, CO that helps people explore and destroy the unconscious motivations and barriers that cripple them.” Check out his blog!
Dr. Stuart Brown’s book, Play: How it Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination, and Invigorates the Soul
Keeping your feet on the ground is the number one cause of boring, uninspired lives. In addition to taking care of ourselves and our families, we have every right to play and lead fun, fulfilling and interesting lives. It's one thing to know that and another to figure out how to do it. Especially if your feet have been on the ground for so long you forget how to have fun.
This episode is the introduction to a series about finding a playground that sets you free to really experience the power of play. The last PlayGrounding episode, Escaping Your Cage, was about identifying and plotting a course away from the things that tie us down. But for what? There has to be a second step. Sometimes our discontent is so ingrained, it’s hard to know what to do when you actually get out. It might even seem easier just to go back inside the cage. But there IS more to life (as I might have mentioned).
Over the next few episodes, we’ll talk about how to create the circumstances that make play possible – real play – the kind that can help us burned-out adults rediscover our childlike exuberance for life. We'll talk about how Dr. Stuart Brown defines transformative play in his book, Play. According to Dr. Brown, play:
Now we just need to find a playground that allows us to really experience these things. All of our playgrounds will be different, but I stumbled upon one where I experienced all of these things at once: Burning Man. It's a huge cultural phenomenon and a healing experience for so many people all over the world, that I thought I'd use it as an example of a playground that truly sets people free.
What will yours playground look like? That's what we're going to explore in the next few episodes, so be sure to subscribe!
Do you live in a cage? (Of course you don’t. Right?) That’s what we explore in this week’s episode of PlayGrounding. I’ll talk about ideas for how to identify whether you’re really as happy as you keep telling yourself you are, then help you identify your own personal cage so that you can start making plans to break out. And it was all inspired by a dog.
Here’s what I promised you from this week’s episode:
Play transforms lives, and this week’s guest, Martin Mapoma, believes one way to get the most out of play is by transforming our bodies. Martin is a fitness and nutrition expert who runs a youth strength and conditioning program called Primal Play. I got to talk to him about why he believes it’s so important to teach fitness to kids as early as possible, how he motivates them through play, and how we adults can do the same. Getting strong and gaining the ability to move well doesn’t have to be torture. We can reach new heights and depths of fun and enjoyment in our lives when we take care of our bodies.
Learn More About Primal Play:
Today’s show exposes our limited point of view when it comes to what’s possible. The idea that we really can take charge of the order of events in our life can seem crazy. But don’t sell yourself out. The things you gave up when you decided to “be a grownup,” those things you always wanted, are probably still available to you.
Hear from Heather Dowling about her one-woman show, Unemployed. Finally... It took 30 jobs in 30 years, but she is finally doing what she wants. It’s about her life from the age of 14 to 40. She explores the different phases of life and what brought her back to finally doing what she loves because she finally gave herself permission to play.
This episode is posted a day late. Yes, I’m busted. The reason is that it was SO HARD to interview this particular person, let alone edit it. He’s a handful. He’s my husband. He’s the reason this podcast exists and the person who came up with its name. His name is Cupcake. Yes, Cupcake. Hear how the heartache of his youth became fuel for a life of generosity, empathy and love for anyone who crosses his path. He identifies best with Stuart Brown’s “joker” play personality, so it makes sense that he’s the life of the party. But he’s also an amazing “camp counselor” for those of us who call him friend. He re-introduced this podcaster to a life of fun and hilarity & I’ve been looking forward to introducing him to you. Have fun!
Show Notes:
See what innovative projection solutions Cupcake is up to at RabCup